Cloud's Creek, SC questions without answers

I was reading Volume 3 of Patrick O'Kelly's four volume "NOTHING BUT BLOOD AND SLAUGHTER The Revolutionary War in the Carolinas (2005); when I came accross a mention of the Cloud Creek Massacre. I knew of the massacre, but it hadn't occured to me how late this was.
This was a month after the surrender of Cornwallis at Yorktown, and two months after the battle of Eutaw Springs, SC (with General Greene losing the battle but winning the victor as usual).
Of course the last fighting in SC was over a year after the massacre....

let's see what we can see...

http://www.alleneasler.com/clouds.html
here's a picture of Padgett's Lake, a millpond on Cloud's Creek; and where the Padgett family (under a variety of spellings) had a mill....

googlemaps of lake

Cloud's creek itself - starts between Monetta and Ridge Sping, SC (off SC 23) goes northworth for a few miles then turns north east toward what used to be the Little Saluda River (and is now
the western side of Lake Murray. Easiest to say that Cloud's Creek is between the town of Saluda and Batesburg-Leesville in SC.

below a google map of
The massacre site


David Martin was an universalist restoration minister of the German Baptist Brethren, and did circuit preaching from his home near Newberry. Towsend's history is the source of most of the below non-war information.

1768 Martin held "first love feast" in this area (this is a specific type of communion)
among those recieving were Snowden and Sybil Kirkland. Kirkland until recently had been with a group of 7th Day Baptists on the Savannah River.
1770 James Warden has two hundred acres on Cloud's Creek.
1772 the Cloud's Creek church has 42 baptized members and -in 30 families. Members included James Warren (leader of the church) and Snowden Kirkland. All were English ethnic background. Cloud's Creek celebrated both Saturday and Sunday as days of worship.
1780 Martin was known to be preaching universal restoration.
November 1781 Cloud's Creek Massacre - at Carter's house (log cabin) on Cloud's Creek.
After the surrender of Captain Turner's remaining militia to Major Cunningham, Cunningham had them killed.
May 1782 Cloud's Creek militia in fight at Dean's Swamp Creek (near Wagener and Salley SC)
against Cunningham.
1790 a Cloud's Creek Baptist Church exists. It does not seem to be the same as the 1770s church. Although the minister there may have some very mild connections with the 1820s Universalist Convention of SC.
1803 original Warren and Padgett landgrants sold to others. Kirkland witness.
1804 death of Snowden Kirkland at Cloud's Creek. Kirkland's grandson called the father's family 7th Day Baptists in his declaration in 1847.
Three of Kirkland's sons were Tories. One of his great great grandsons married into the Dennis-Lester family that was associated with the Dunkers-Universalists of Newberry. I have conflicting reports as to Snowden being the brother of Moses Kirkland, an infamous in SC Loyalists.

We know little about Cloud's Creek - the question that I've wondered in putting this timeline together, is does the war and the massacres (of which Cloud's Creek is just one local one from just one side) affect David Martin and his universalist views?

TarHeel Universalist 1947 - 1955

I found some TarHeel Universalists in a library in North Carolina this past weekend (for those of you not from around here: Tar heel is a nickname for North Carolinians). this was a fair run of most issues from 1947 to 1955. Since this was an unexpected bonanza, I wasnt prepared with tons of dimes to make copies - but I did skim and make some notes.

Rev O. E. Bryant and Rev Lyman Ward died in 1948. Rev Bryant had retired, but was preaching one Sunday a month at Inman's Chapel in the mountains. Dr Bishop was living in Aberdeen and commuting (Aberdeen was my father's home place from the 1920s and I still have an aunt living there now. Our family farm is now condos in Pinehurst). Rev Thomas Chapman was a vegetarian, Rev L. C. "Tex" Prather was a scoutmaster. Woodington was still known as Clayton Memorial in 1947, there was a Goldsboro Fellowship in 1953,
- and I know three of the UYF (I assume this is Universalist Youth Fellowship) officers in the early 1950s. Still active in UU over 50 years later. good for them!
I will go back to make some copies of articles later -

Charleston SC Universalist

I last wrote about the Charleston Universalists in January 2007.

since then, I now have the Charleston Universalists still around in 1860 (looking to hire a new minister). This is close enough, that we can basically say that the Church lasted until the war.

As for the No Hell cemetery - I have a possible cite of a "Elizabeth Roberts" who died on September 12, 1838 and buried in September 13, 1838 in the "Universalist Yard". that would suggest on the lot on what was Anson and Laurens. I have no idea if they were removed after the war, or remain there. Anybody here with a good source of Charleston cemetery books?

Rev John Gregory (1810-1881) was minister and editor of the "Southern Evangelist" for a year around 1838.

Governor J. L. Wilson (1784 -1849), I see the Methodists slam him as an Universalist in a Methodist history book in the late 1800s, with an amusing story where he discovered his pastor in a local bar and had a drink with him. Good thing Wilson wasn't upstate with the teetotaler Universalists. The teetotaling Methodists weren't amused. I see in a mason book a letter from Wilson to Rev Albert Case. I suspect that all the Charleston Universalists were masons.

and the 1827-1829 Charleston Trinitarian Universalist book, "the Evangelists Manual" is on google books now.

Dec 2, 2007 "Father D.B.Clayton, southern Universalist missionary"

Just a real early note that on December 2, 2007, I will be talking to Outlaw's Bridge Universalist Church in the Outlaw's Bridge community near Seven Springs NC, about Southern Universalist Missionary Father D. B. Clayton.
Whether this ends up as a lecture or sermon or preaching; I'm not yet sure. The topic should be inspiring - we will see if the presenter is as good as the subject matter.

Universalists 222 birhday

222 years ago on September 14, 1785, a group of New England Universalist Churches joined together to form the New England Convention of Universalists. this eventually became the Universalist Church of America. I didn't see the UUA celebrating their birthday (or is it their parents birthday?)

In honor, I had a cup of ice cream (the fact that it's still in the 80s at 9:30 PM might have something to do with that too....)

and what did you do to celebrate?

marking time....

So what do I do when I get a semi-plug in a national magazine? Do I put up something every few days to keep the folks who dont use a RSS feed? No, I dont even put up a "best of"....

two things being going on: research for others and allergy season.

The research for others has confirmed somethings, opened my eyes to others, but been even more fragmented. The allergy season has been draining. And we have to put in some work and family issues in the time thing too....

i have found -thanks to the book DEFEND THIS OLD TOWN; WILLIAMSBURG DURING THE CIVIL WAR (2002) - that J. L. C. Griffin's diary is in an archives - although now i can find ouyt where. this would help confirm his Universalist school in Magnolia, and would tell us more about him.

I have read a little bit on Inman Chapel, J.C. Burruss, and on Virginia - not much going on in Virginia, but it's still more than I thought.....

Quillen Hamilton Shinn, DD

Quillen Hamilton Shinn, DD (January 6, 1845 - September 6, 1907)

you can read the biography of Shinn at Google Books (search for "Faith With Power" Shinn)
and you can read an article in the current UU World

Once when I visited an UU Church (on a homecoming Sunday), one of the things that was shared was a picture of a child standing with Quillen Shinn. This child became the parent of the person sharing (if I have the story right), but the big thing in this, is that having your parent meet Q. H. Shinn was indeed a big thing.

Taken from the above mentioned biography, comes this:

Morning: a Prayer
"Our father: every morning is a fresh return of Thy loving kindness. When we sleep, the vigils of Thy love are 'round about us. At the threshold of this new day, may it please Thee to inspire us with lofty aims, so that we may rise out of our selfish selves into conscious kinship with Thee. Help us to know the mystery of Thy love, how limitless and all comforting it is and, animated by its sweet law, may we go out into this great and needy world with hearts to sympthaize, with words to cheer and with hands to minister. Then shall we know the Divine Nature of our faith, the joy of Christlike living and fully realize that love is the fulfilling of the law.
Amen."

First printed in the anthology "The Optimist's Good Morning". Somewhere around here, I have a book with a picture of Shinn preaching at the grove at Ferry Beach - with the altar big and clear with "God is Love" engraved boldly on it. This is what Universalism was in 1907 - Optimism, Love, and the joy of Christlike living. No matter what one's theological views, we sure could use more of those three things in 2007.